From the Jesus Creed Site

13 Mar

More Balanced and nice critique of Roberto:

Use of rabbis. Some of you might not care about this; I do. Rob has an annoying habit in sermons and in books. He equates rabbinic writings, which are sources from the 3d to 9th Century AD, with Judaism of both the 1st Century (Jesus’ and Paul’s worlds) and the Judaism of the day of Moses. And he reinterprets things in the Bible through those rabbinic sources. At times in his uses of the rabbis it just happens that the rabbinic information is something found also for the 1st Century or ancient Israel (but rarely). He tells us fun things, scintillating and titillating things that average folks don’t know, and they go “aha, so that’s what’s going on, the covenant formula is actually about sitting under the chuppah of a Jewish bride and groom. How neat to know this.” His 7th chp is about “under the chuppah” and explains Israel’s relationship to God as what takes place under the chuppah — the prayer shawl stood up with four poles and under which the couple formed their union. Problem is, no, it isn’t accurate; that prayer shawl and chuppah stuff is later and had nothing to do with Exodus and Deuteronomy and the covenant formula of YHWH’s relationship to Israel. (Unless there is evidence for a couple wedding under a chuppah back then that I’ve not seen.) We are dealing in Exodus/Deut with a treaty formula from the Ancient Near East, not with the later specifics of a rabbinic marriage custom or with the sexual union that occurred under the chuppah. The whole chp for me is misconstrued through that rabbinic lens.

and this:

Along this line of using ancient sources, I don’t like that Rob chose to say that there is a “spark” of the divine in each of us. Why? That’s from the Gnostics and it means something quite different to me because of its use by them. In other words, for me “this” (the spark) is not “that” (God’s image). That language is from a different world altogether than “image of God” in Genesis 1.

Read it all here


3 Responses to “From the Jesus Creed Site”

  1. MOOGMA March 18, 2007 at 5:02 pm #

    Yeh i read velvet Elvis and to me it seems Rob copys other peoples research and ideas.
    the book seemed it was not his thoughts but others .

    Like Liberal rabbi schools in Israel etc.

    Jesus was against the Pharocees (sp)sadecees (sp) , Rabbis of his days most of the time but it seems Rob wants us to tree hugg them all.

  2. jimdawg185 March 26, 2007 at 9:59 am #

    First of all, the fact that Rob takes info from others is a non issue. We all do that, if we didnt we would have to learn twenty languages and start diging up manuscripts in the east. Second, what weakness. In almost a decade of preaching, the only things you can find that Rob may be in error are these. Give everyone a break, it is not out of the ordinary to try to speak from a culture with similar writings from a similar culture. Rob never speaks it as absolutes, he forms more questions than answers. He challenges us to look into it ourselves. And if you were ever at Mars Hill, Rob loves the people in the community who question and challenge him the most.

  3. poopemerges March 26, 2007 at 12:25 pm #

    Jim, it is not my practice to insult those who comment. But frankly you are an adventure in missing the point. These are not the only issues with Rob, nor are they little issues. There is no problem studying sources from similar cultures but if you will go back and re-read Dr. McKnight you will see that his whole argument is that they are not similar cultures. This causes major interpretive errors. It also allows a 4th century apostate religion (as Judiasm became after AD 70 and the rejection of the Messiah) to give us a grid for understanding that which she her self reviles (Jesus).

    Also you say: “Rob never speaks it as absolutes, he forms more questions than answers. He challenges us to look into it ourselves.” Ummm if you have no issue with that then you have more problems than I can speak too. But I too have looked into myself, and what I found was an absolute: I am a broken sinner. But you know what, looking inside did me no good, I was powerless to change my situation. I needed a savior, his name was Jesus, he is the only Savior of the world, the only name by which we must be saved and my only hope…absolutely.

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