So if I had to stand with one or the other…

4 Jun

So I am not usually one to throw in with those who are culturally ultra conservative…but I have been following a spat between someone named Ingid and Doug Pagitt…While following this fight I happened on Ken Silva’s site…Now the thing is that theologically I think that ole’ Kenneth and I could be boys…but I suspect that because I like to mix my reformation theology with still living in the year 2007 he probably would not like me…but anyhoo he was commenting on Doug Pagitt and wrote the following paragraph which is both funny and true. Unless of course you are Doug Pagitt, but hey if you are Doug Pagitt then the words have no meaning anyway, and if there is a meaning we can not really know it as we are trapped inside language so you should just re-imagine them for your own time and context.

Ken wrote these words in response to Doug posting on a blog essentially saying that Ingrid was being rude:

Doug Wrote:

At some point doesn’t this kind of talk become gossip and slander? I mean really.It seems to me that if people like me bother you so much you ought to just leave us alone and stop inviting us to be on your programs or be featured on your website.To equate people who are seeking to be faithful with those mentioned in Jude is beyond rude and enters into divisiveness.

And Ken Responded

O please Doug. Striving to be “faithful” to what? And we’re “rude” and practicing “divisiveness”? Aren’t you the superior Christians in the so-called emerging church who have defecated on the blood of the Reformation martyrs by dragging Gnostic contemplative spirituality from antibiblcal monastic traditions from apostate Roman Catholicism back into the Church of our Lord?

I have said it before and I will say it again: If you follow the Jesus of History and the Bible then Doug is really freaking dangerous. If not, feel free to imagine Jesus anyway you like, however I suspect that it might turn out to be an unpleasant decision upon your death. I think the fact that Doug tries to frame his theology as “Christian” that makes him dangerous, if he were just some dude starting a religion I suspect that he would not have a very big following…(as all his ideas have been around and died once before…)

Side note: I wonder what the followers of Peace-nik Jesus do with the Jesus they read about in Revelation.

Edit: Per Doug’s request links to his books: Books

Also as a random side note, I do not know Doug but I assume that he is a nice guy and that he is a Christ follower, I just think he is wrong, and that his ideas are still dangerous. I do know that he used to be a part of the same group of churches as me so that is something. Feel free to read his books, I did and they kinda freaked me out, but enjoy.

Also good news, Ken apparently would like me 🙂 and I am sure he is nice too…


11 Responses to “So if I had to stand with one or the other…”

  1. Doug Pagitt June 4, 2007 at 8:44 pm #

    Hey, thanks for the mention. Any chance you could include links to my books in these kinds of posts?

  2. Ken Silva June 4, 2007 at 8:46 pm #

    “Now the thing is… I suspect that because I like to mix my reformation theology with still living in the year 2007 he probably would not like me…”

    Well Poop, if’n you really thought this, then I reckon ya’ll would be mistaken. Ya know what I’m sayin’… 🙂

  3. Ken Silva June 4, 2007 at 8:47 pm #

    Woh, was that a shameless begging for a plug by Doug!

  4. Doug Pagitt June 4, 2007 at 9:35 pm #

    Thanks so much Dave for the links.
    I am also glad to at least be granted nice guy status. That must come from your commitment to be known as a community known by love.

    I am grateful.

  5. poopemerges June 4, 2007 at 9:43 pm #

    Oh and you are funny too. That is the kind of snarky comment based in reality that I love, you are shooting up my list. Seriously. If I ever go on vacation I will let you guest write the blog.

  6. Doug Pagitt June 4, 2007 at 9:57 pm #

    There you go.
    Now, that would be fun to exchange authors on each others blogs. We should do that for like April fools day, or Columbus day.

  7. poopemerges June 4, 2007 at 10:02 pm #

    Well maybe April Fool’s but I always have such big plans for Columbus day what with all the gift giving and family coming to town and of course the candle light service on Columbus eve.

  8. LayGuy June 24, 2007 at 10:36 pm #

    I wouldn’t read Pagitt’s books if he paid me.

  9. poopemerges June 24, 2007 at 10:52 pm #

    LayGuy: I refer you here:

  10. clearly June 25, 2007 at 2:30 am #


    how can doug be so wrong and yet you still call him a follower of Christ? doesn’t it have to be one way or the other…?

  11. poopemerges June 25, 2007 at 10:34 am #

    I think there are lots of people who are wrong who I would say still love Jesus they are just wrong. I am sure at times your are wrong…and I know I am wrong often. I am not saying that I don’t think that his beliefs have no effect on his spirituality, I think they do, I am just giving the benefit of the doubt that he is sincere and wrong. And that no matter how wrong he is motivated by a desire to follow Jesus.

    As to follower of Christ, I use the term synonymously with “Christian,” and as such I don’t believe that any work saves or makes a person a Christian, including point by point right mental assent to good theology. I think Jesus saves people, regardless of their works. I would say there are all kinds of wrong people that Jesus has saved.

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