Jesus Voted For Obama

5 Nov

If there are two things that bother me it’s racists and Arminians….  Ok just kidding there are a lot of Arminians that I love.  So what bothers me…hmmm we will call it racists and people whose functional savior is government.  Last night I had my first post election conversation with someone who is a believer (though it seems to me he might be worshiping something other than Christ) and a Christian in ministry no less. As it turned out he was near death with despair over our new president.  Our conversation reveled that he was both ignorant of issues of race and issues of scripture.  On the issue of race I will not even repeat the foolishness because he is young and I will hope he grows,  but needless to say it was foolish and reflected the reality that many young Christians have been so sheltered in the white, American ghetto of Christianity that they have no experience or understanding of how race affects what happens in our country.  Has no one taught them the concept that reconcilliation amongst men is a sign of the power of the gospel?

Not only that but he was ignorant it seems of the fact the God is in control.  We all say this,  but I find that so few of us live it.  I think the reason we do not live it is because  we not actually worship the God of the Bible but rather the god of Americanism.   I keep hearing people (people with bad eschatology, but people none the less) say that this is a sign of the end times, and acting as if Jesus has been thwarted. That is just a bunch of bunk!  Americans think like this because we long ago abandoned Jesus as our hope and his glory as our goal for the safety of a president who would legislate our comfort.  I want all you who are worried to hear this:  Barack Obama won because Jesus wanted him to.  God is soverign.  Votes are cute but really they only serve to convince silly men that they are in charge.  Barack Obama winning did not upend the plans of God.  His plans are his plans.  Now does this mean that Barack will be a great president?  No. He may be,  but he might just be awful,  he might destroy this country and all your worst fears might come true.  So then you ask why would Jesus allow Obama to be president?  Simple.  Jesus is not interested in  building a “government for the people, by the people…”,  he is building a Kingdom.  A Kingdom for him, and by him. His glory is the point.  And frankly God’s glory and bad government have a interesting way of dwelling together,  and if you doubt this ask the 1,000,000 people who come to Christ every month in China and India.  Democracy is ok government,  but if you place your trust in it you will see that it is bad math and bad theology.  Bad math because is seems to believe that the will of the masses has more power than the one who created it all.  Bad theology because it seems to believe that someone and something other that Jesus is in control.   And if Jesus is in control and he himself is our peace, who are we to live in fear if he should choose to build this nation up or if he should bring it low?  He will accomplish his purposes and if we trust him he has told us that his purposes are good.  Even if the goverment does not go our way history and the universe always go Jesus’ way.   In the first centruy the Christians were a minority who refused to give their honor to the empire..and many of them died,  and yet from the blood of the Martyrs came a witness that converted the world. I just can’t imagine first century Christians wringing their hands over the “election” of Nero in a great worry that he would destroy their nation.  In fact as I recall they refused to say “Ceasar is Lord”…when the heck will we?

Great Post Here

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53 Responses to “Jesus Voted For Obama”

  1. Seth McBee November 5, 2008 at 11:53 am #

    way to bring it Dave…way to bring it

  2. Dany November 5, 2008 at 12:24 pm #

    good stuff Dave… so frustrated with Christians desperation over this…. Obama is man, McCain is man… we should not put our TRUST in either. We should not be putting our trust in MAN. GOD is on the THRONE!

  3. mikevandrie November 5, 2008 at 1:01 pm #

    Amen D, someday maybe Christians will realized that America is not god.

  4. Natalie November 5, 2008 at 1:10 pm #

    Yeah! *arm pump here*

  5. Brent November 5, 2008 at 2:32 pm #

    I am truly ashamed of the way American Christians are handling this… thank you for being a Christian who doesn’t run and hide when things get tough…

  6. Heather Fischer November 5, 2008 at 3:12 pm #

    Awesome post. Can I quote this?

  7. poopemerges November 5, 2008 at 3:19 pm #

    Always Heather 🙂 thanks.

    D

  8. ddonnie November 5, 2008 at 3:42 pm #

    So if i voted the other way, did i vote against Jesus? Sheesh dave now I feel bad.

  9. poopemerges November 5, 2008 at 3:48 pm #

    Apparently. But you were not alone :).

  10. amybaker November 5, 2008 at 3:56 pm #

    love it poop, love it. reading facebook status updates this morning you’d think people just found out there was no God. I am doing an interesting personal experiment at comparing categories of people’s status updates.

  11. poopemerges November 5, 2008 at 3:59 pm #

    My friend Natalie has a blog about the Facebook Stati: http://natalievandrie.blogspot.com/2008/11/only-blog-that-i-will-title.html

    It is good.

  12. amybaker November 5, 2008 at 6:58 pm #

    sweet thanks

  13. JHalterman November 5, 2008 at 7:19 pm #

    America Bless God

  14. poopemerges November 5, 2008 at 7:20 pm #

    lol. that is so true!

  15. beckystewart November 6, 2008 at 12:14 am #

    Thanks for some sanity. I’ve heard so many people today talk like the country is going to immediately implode. I doubt this is true, but, even if it is, why do Christians need to freak out? Jesus said: “My kingdom is not of this world.” It’s about time Christians act like it.

  16. Tim Terhune November 6, 2008 at 10:26 pm #

    Great post Dave.

    Ray Pritchard had some good thoughts too…

    Despair is Not an Option
    On one of his speaking tours, Richard Neuhaus was picked up at the airport by a man who kept talking about how bad things were in America and how difficult these times are. Finally Rev. Neuhaus had had enough of the doom and gloom talk. “These may be bad times, but they are only times we are given. And despair is a mortal sin.”

    He’s right. Whether good or bad, these are the only times we are given—and it is our privilege to serve the Lord today, right where we are.

    Despair is not an option. These are fantastic, exciting, amazing days to be alive. We should continue to do good and remain optimistic.

    Chin up and knees down. Take some time to laugh today. It’s a good way to remind yourself that God knows what he’s doing even when we don’t.

  17. Dan Ghramm November 7, 2008 at 12:57 am #

    Well said, Dave!

  18. Cara November 7, 2008 at 12:29 pm #

    Can’t argue with this one:) I’m glad my daughter was born into a world where our country has come far enough for this momentous event to occur, regardless of my political views or anyone else’s:) It’s a huge moment for our country, and I feel like she and other children will now truly believe that they can do anything they want to in life.
    And obviously this was God’s intended plan for our country, so all the fear-mongering is really out of place. I’ve blogged about this fear a couple of times recently and of course gotten push back from people saying, “No, you don’t understand. I fear for my CHILDREN!” and the like. As though that kind of fear is okay — God doesn’t give us a spirit of fear, but of love and of power and of a sound mind. I think both sides would do well to remember the sound mind part , as there has been massive hysteria on both sides of the aisle. And we would all certainly do well to remember that God gives us a spirit of love — condemning a fellow human being for being elected President is certainly not showing love.

  19. StainFreeMedia November 8, 2008 at 5:32 pm #

    How do you reconcile with millions of dead, unborn babies? How do you reconcile with abortion-surviving babies who are left to die in hospital garbage cans? This is NOT a “race thing”. It’s a “morality thing, as is social justice, war, tortue, etc. And at this juncture, we are commanded to pray for our President-elect. If Paul could pray and honor the man who ultimately had him beheaded, then the church can pray for Barack Obama, and SHOULD pray for him. We are commanded to do so. Thank you for your post. PEACE to you and yours.

  20. Heather Fischer November 8, 2008 at 11:41 pm #

    Love it when people come out guns blazing and then end with “peace to you and yours”.
    Studies show that proper health care, finacial stability, and social support programs contributes to less unwanted pregnancies and a decrease in abortions. So many people who prolife are anti-“socialism”, anti-taxes, and therefore anti-democrat. I see universal health care and social programs as a means of taking care of the poor, fatherless, widow, and foreigner (it’s true and undefiled religion) not to mention a means by which abortions should decrease.
    Again, McCain made it super clear that he would not base his supreme court nominee based on overturning or reinterpreting Roe v. Wade. Also, he said he would leave the responsibility in the hands of each individual state regardless.

  21. StainFreeMedia November 9, 2008 at 10:30 am #

    Heather, trust me, my post was not “guns blazing”. I do, in fact, wish peace for “you and yours”, but not at the expense of freedom, and that includes financial freedom. And I’ll take freedom over peace ANY day because you can have freedom without peace, but you can never have peace without freedom. In direct response to your post, “proper health care” can never be provided and managed by any government. “Financial stability” is achieved when people are allowed to keep more of the money THEY’VE worked for and when it’s not redistributed to those who in most cases, WON’T work. “Social support programs” are all well and good unless someone depends on them generation after generation, as is the case these days. By the way, you totally quoted James 1:27 out of context. For starters it mentions nothing about “foreigners”. It simply states that pure and faultless religion is to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. The book of James was written to Jewish Christians in approximately 45 A.D. and isn’t some sort of mandate or instruction manual on how governments should confiscate wealth and then “spread it around” to others. Those are instructions to the Church and its the Church’s job to carry out those instructions and live in that way, NOT the government’s. The governments’ responsibilities are clearly spelled out in Romans. Monies that come to the Church are freely given, not withdrawn from a paycheck to prop up a bloated, wasteful, inefficient bureaucracy that only perpetuates poverty. I spend the vast majority of my professional and ministry time in the inner city of the 4th largest city in the nation. My comments aren’t simply anecdotal in nature. I’ve seen the total, abysmal failure of government “assistance”. The Church and ONLY the Church can provide what the poor need. The government doesn’t spend money like a drunken sailor. Drunken sailors spend their OWN money. Finally, I totally agree with McCain’s stance on abortion and that no nominee’s qualifications should be based on Roe v. Wade or any other constitutional issue facing the court, but rather on the nominee’s view of constitutional interpretation. And up until the 80’s that was always the standard. In closing, I DO wish peace to you and yours, Heather. Peace doesn’t always involve being in total agreement nor does it necessarily manifest itself in quiet, meek, non-confrontational conversation. But it is peace, all the same. And as such, I wish it for others.

    Praying for our President and our President-elect,

    SFMedia
    Houston

  22. Meade November 10, 2008 at 10:48 am #

    SFM
    I agree with some of what you say in principle but I think things are more complicated than you represent. I disagree that most of the poor “won’t work”. That’s simply not true. Most of the poor ARE working and working incredible amounts of hours. The reason for their poverty is not only failure on their part but a whole broken system involving personal sin and societal sin. There almost never is there some clear pattern of person A is poor because they’re lazy and person B is poor because of oppression. It’s all swirled together in a system of sin and oppression.

    The kind of thinking that says only the church or only the government is the solution is dichotomistic and unhelpful. There are things the church does well and things better handled by local, state and federal agencies. No church any of us goes to will ever be equipped to deal effectively with all the issues faced by schizophrenic homeless men with AIDS.

    A far better approach might be to have each piece of the puzzle – individual christians, churches, denominations, para-church, local, state and federal government, doing what each does best all with good theological foundations.

  23. StainFreeMedia November 11, 2008 at 7:23 pm #

    I stand by my statement that the Church and ONLY the Church can provide what the poor need. Obviously individuals with severe medical conditions need to be helped by hospitals and I never stated otherwise. But the only institution with “good theological foundations” that can truly provide what the poor need is the Church. Of course it’s a lot easier to sit at home and wait for your assistance check and not even attempt to help yourself. In the words of a comic whose name I can’t recall, “America is the only country in the world with FAT poor people.” There’s not THAT many poor people in this country, but there ARE a lot of LAZY people, like it or not, politically correct or not to say so. And THOSE people need to go hungry, since they refuse to work, according to the Apostle Paul, under the inspiration of a truly loving God.

  24. poopemerges November 11, 2008 at 7:44 pm #

    Stain: I let you go and have your discussion…and that my friend hung you. You revealed yourself for what you are… Because your last statement was ignorant. Laziness is one reason that people are poor. Scripture is clear that there are others such as oppression. But be that as it may, I can tell you as an urban Minister in Michigan that we have many poor, who would love to work if there were any jobs. As for you Stain, your statement and your attitude are not Biblical.

    D

  25. Joel Shaffer November 11, 2008 at 8:57 pm #

    Stain,

    Unfortunately, the majority of churches are not up for the task to redemptively respond to the poor. Many, many, many of them are so caught up in their own kingdoms with their bricks and mortar projects and quirky Christmas programs, that they don’t have the necessary resources to really assist those make the transition from welfare to work. Yes, idealistically the church is answer, but God’s people need to catch the vision for poverty ministry that goes beyond a “used clothing” and “canned goods” approach. And they need extensive training if they were to take the place of government.

    I also agree with D about Laziness being only one cause of poverty. There are at least a dozen reasons, and often they are intertwined with each other. When it comes to responding to the needs of the poor, although there are times to show tough love, we must be careful not to become social darwinists (survival of the fittist). For instance, would you actually have that mentality for a family with several kids who has a father that is lazy? What about the kids? Are they to starve too?

    By the way, the highest indicator that determines whether someone will be in poverty is a teen having a child out of wedlock/ becoming a single parent. And contrary to what I was taught before I began doing urban youth ministry, most of these teen moms are not trying to have babies so that they can get government assistance. Most of them prefer not to, but are so overwhelmed because of the absence of the father, that they pragmatically take it.

  26. StainFreeMedia November 12, 2008 at 9:44 am #

    Well, I’ve read my posts several times and for some reason I’m unable to find where I said that all poor people are lazy and/or that the government should never help anyone under any circumstances, whatsoever. Oh yeah, NOW I remember. That’s because I never said it!! What I DID say was that “social programs are all well and good unless someone is depending on them generation after generation” and that the government’s job is to protect us and “restrain evil”, according to Romans. Part of that protection and restraining includes cutting off deadbeats who refuse to work, and you can’t be serious if you think that there aren’t HUGE amounts of deadbeats on the government dole. I also inferred that the government does a poor job (pardon the pun) in assisting the poor. That point is obvious, since we have more “poor” people today in a disproportionate number to population growth, yet we’ve spent billions and billions and continue to do so in order to “assist” them. (Poor in quotes) Let me guess, we need to SPEND more and TAKE more from people who WILL work, right? Keep piling more and more lazy people in the wagon which will leave less and less working people pulling the wagon and watch what happens. Said wagon comes to a grinding halt and non-thinking people will start screaming and yelling at the “wagon pullers” to give more and to stop being so greedy. I mean, c’mon, we can’t let people who legitimately earn a living spend it as God and their conscience sees fit, right?

  27. Joel Shaffer November 12, 2008 at 5:10 pm #

    Are you arguing against the current welfare system or the pre 1996 welfare system before welfare reform took place? Our current system requires those who receive aid, no matter who it is (except for major mental illnesses and disability) to work. Those who refuse to after a certain amount of time (I think it is 5 years) are cut off. As people get jobs, their benefits decrease. Direct services are routed towards things such as day-care for single parent families who can’t afford in anyway else . Can you give me examples of “dead beats” who don’t work, but receive all of this government aid? That hasn’t happened for a decade now. I’m not questioning that there are lazy poor people. I’m questioning your argument that they are on the government dole.

  28. StainFreeMedia November 18, 2008 at 6:11 pm #

    Joel, thank you for making my case for me. There ARE those on the government dole for at least five years, right? The system that’s used to receive “repeat” (illegal) benefits consists of, among other methods, acquiring false social security numbers and registering family members other than yourself after your benefits expire, which in the case of illegal immigrants is almost an endless list of recepients. Those are just two of the cons currently in use, or at least they’re the ones I personally know of.

  29. poopemerges November 18, 2008 at 9:17 pm #

    Stain, you are starting to be embarassing… You claim Christ yet don’t like people of color. I am tired of you. Your argument about immigrants is typical “I pretend to Love Jesus as long as I can think of him as white” crap. Stop posting here. This space is for intelligent discourse.

  30. StainFreeMedia November 18, 2008 at 9:35 pm #

    I don’t like people of color? I think of Jesus as white? If this space is for intelligent discourse, then please intelligently explain to me where I stated what you have suggested.

  31. poopemerges November 18, 2008 at 9:44 pm #

    Stain,
    People who are passively racist seldom realize it…But you seem to be putting out a line of bull that is directed at people of color (anti-immigrant rants for instance that I am pretty sure you were not directing at Canadians)… You have an issue with people of color is seems for some percieved slight in the social services…

    D

  32. StainFreeMedia November 18, 2008 at 9:50 pm #

    I’m anti-ILLEGAL immigration, my friend, not anti-immigrant. Very important distinction. And I’ve been looking for my “rant” but am unable to locate it. And were did the “racism” card come from? When you can’t intelligently discuss the issue, then call the other person a racist and the war is over, right? Really, now…….

  33. poopemerges November 18, 2008 at 9:57 pm #

    http://www.amazon.com/Grace-Matters-Memoir-Faith-Friendship/dp/0787970980/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227059740&sr=8-1

    Or send me your address and I will send it to you for free.

    Second note: If you are anti any group of people you have elevated something above the gospel.

  34. StainFreeMedia November 18, 2008 at 10:06 pm #

    I am against the actions of many groups of people, as are you. And along that line of thought, I repeat, “I’m anti-illegal immigration, not anti-immigrant.” Let me break that down for you. I’m against an illegal activity and not against a group of people. Maybe this time you’ll understand the distinction. Do you?

  35. StainFreeMedia November 18, 2008 at 10:08 pm #

    Additionally, I don’t need to read a book about life in the inner-city or the life of “people of color” as you call them. I’ve lived it, my friend. That’s why I speak with authority on the subject and don’t have to go to amazon.com to be tutored on the subject.

  36. poopemerges November 18, 2008 at 10:18 pm #

    Wow ignorant mixed with arrogant. Nice very Jesus-y. I happen to still be living it and the book really helped me…but I am probably not as Holy as the PeeWee Herman of internet posters (I do not have to see the movie Dottie…I lived it)

    I will grant you the above post though…you bore me and I did not read closely enough.

    D

  37. amybaker November 19, 2008 at 1:11 am #

    oh Stain, I am not sure that I know where to begin….sigh.

  38. StainFreeMedia November 19, 2008 at 5:05 pm #

    oh Amy….’sigh’….I wish I could be as condescending as you….but, alas….all I can do is ‘sigh’….please share your boundless wisdom with me when you….’sigh’….figure out where to begin….’sigh’….(All this sighing is making me hyperventilate, but I’m still having fun.)

    Dear Poop: Let’s look your scorecard. I’m a racist, I’m ignorant, I’m boring and now I’m arrogant. Yet you still haven’t found the time to respond to my specific posts. You “throw something”, I respond and then YOU respond with pejoratives. Why are you finding it so hard to stay on-topic?

  39. poopemerges November 23, 2008 at 12:40 am #

    You ignore topic…you embarrass me and I think you are full of crap. If you say something worthwhile I will interact…but you gotta say something.

  40. StainFreeMedia November 23, 2008 at 5:43 pm #

    “I think you are full of crap.” -poopemerges//November 23, 2008 at 12:40 am

    My goodness, how “Jesus-y” of you, Poop. All you have to offer to the conversation is another pejorative. I’ve been on-topic since November 8, 2008 at 5:32 pm, and by something “worthwhile”, I assume you mean something “poop agrees with”, right? And again, I’m still waiting for reasoned responses to my posts.

  41. amybaker November 23, 2008 at 7:30 pm #

    Stain: The issue I am seeing with your arguments against government funded services is two-fold. First of all, there are broadly speaking two approaches towards providing services, be it public or private. In one you create policy based primarily upon the premise that your ultimate goal is to prevent people from “cheating” the system. You are not focused on helping the person you are focused on not being cheated. This is also called a residual or reductionist perspective in the literature.

    In the other, the ultimate goal is helping the person, underneath the Biblical concept of allowing mercy to limit mercy. Meaning that, when it is no longer merciful to help someone, you no longer help them. IE- free room and board to an addict who refuses treatment.

    The problem with the first is that you exclude helping the majority of people who genuinely need help at the expense of trying to avoid the minority trying to rip off whatever system it is… government, church, non-profit or private.

    The problem with the second is that, YES, at times you will get ripped off. No one can be 100% correct in their assessments of who to help and when, sometimes, the “lazy” person will slip through.

    However, making policy or social service decisions based upon the minority who truly won’t work eliminates help from the majority who desperately need it.

    If we were to practice this perspective in nearly any other field of service we’d be called ludicrous, but because the residual approach appeals to our pride about feeling good about how much WE, work, we allow it and encourage it. It is not a Biblical perspective.

    POOP: sorry for the ridiculously long comment, I couldn’t have said the same things shorter! 🙂

  42. amybaker November 23, 2008 at 7:35 pm #

    STAIN: the second issue with your arguments is that they seem to operate under the assumption that a.) most people who need help don’t deserve it due to laziness and b.) work= fair wage and ability to pay one’s bills.

    Both experiential and statistical data show both of those assertions to be false. For instance…
    One-fifth of available jobs in the united states do not pay enough for a family of four to stay above the poverty line. So, even if, people are working full-time, in a traditional two-parent unit, that is absolutely no guarantee that people have enough to eat.

  43. Meade November 23, 2008 at 9:22 pm #

    I agree with you Amy. The gospel is the pattern. Jesus shed his blood for us despite the fact that we often abuse and misuse it. Yet at the same time that grace is transforming. Because it is free but not cheap it is transformative. It actually creates the obedient character the law requires.

    I want my government to show grace and let mercy limit mercy just like the church should. I don’t want the primary concern to be preventing families from cheating the system. I’m officially done with this thread. I think it’s become pretty trollish considering what the original topic was about.

  44. StainFreeMedia November 27, 2008 at 8:04 pm #

    A “fair” wage is what your employer can afford to pay and not necessarily what it takes to “pay ones bills”. The responsibility lies on the part of the individual to control one’s spending and bring it in line with the salary. Not the other way around. And I’ve never even insinuated that the primary concern of governmental aid is to prevent fraud, waste and/or abuse. The primary concern is to help those who are TRULY in need, period. And I’ve NEVER argued against government aid programs, Amy. I’m against the waste within those programs and the lack of desire to eradicate it. (“It”=”Waste”) Next…….

  45. Fabs November 28, 2008 at 5:19 am #

    DUDE! Well said (on your article, not on any of the comments, I haven’t read them). I guess, all in all, everything comes down to the fact that God is sovereign.

    Simple, Elegant, and True.

  46. StainFreeMedia November 28, 2008 at 11:33 am #

    Yep, Fabs. In the words of Bob Dylan:

    Of every earthly plan that be known to man
    He is unconcerned.
    He’s got plans of His own to set up His Throne
    When He returns.

    He IS sovereign. Thanks for the reminder!!

  47. Dave December 29, 2008 at 5:44 pm #

    Did anyone notice the 12/25/08 article about Ed Dobson in the Grand Rapids Press?

    http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/12/retired_pastor_spends_year_eat.html

    This is basically a “living the Jesus culture part II”. Among other things, Dobson claims that he voted as Jesus would by casting his for Obama. This is quite a swing from the Moral Majority days. What is going on?

  48. Heather Fischer January 4, 2009 at 9:12 pm #

    I reread my post. It was not my intent to “misquote James”. It was my intent to include a broad array of scriptures but the way I laid out the sentence was not well thought out. I can see how lumping in foreigner and then writing (pure and undefiled religion) after it was sloppy.

    However, scripture gives plenty support for providing for people in need and yes, even the stranger (Matt. 25)

    No matter the time period of scripture I do not see that God sets any perimeter or boundary for who we should take care of by a map with man made border lines on it. Nor does he say only to take care of people during a restricted time period circa 45 ad.

    As to the rest of mayhem and foolishness posted on here…I see that D has done a fine job of responding to that.

  49. stainfreemedia January 5, 2009 at 9:37 pm #

    Heather, here are cold, hard facts concerning those who feel its the government’s job to spare no expense in taking care of the “poor”:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html?em

    Some of us are already doing it in response to a Biblical mandate, not because its suddenly the hip thing to advocate with a new administration coming into office.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. .the world is going to end(not really). « …the other way… - November 5, 2008

    […] them.  The first one is about frustration with other Christians and the other one is about how Jesus voted for Obama.  They are both great reads and say most everything that I would about the […]

  2. For those who wonder what this site is about… « Poop is emergent too - February 2, 2009

    […] https://poopemerges.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/jesus-voted-for-obama/ […]

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