I don’t think Roberto meant to go face to face with someone who didn’t bow to his rockstarness…I mean Bashir got famous interviewing Micheal Jackson, so I guess the Rob was not a huge deal to him. I am also guessing this was the first time Rob has ever been pushed to answer a question and not been able to call the questioner a big meany.
So while watching from the sidelines of the current Rob Bell dust up I noticed an interesting phenomenon. Rob Bell supporters (Bellites? Bellions? NoHellBellistians?) argue exactly like my 11 year old daughter.
To whit.
Daughter Argument step 1: Deny and Define
Daughter: I haaaatttttteeee my brothers
Me: You can’t say that! Go to your room.
Daughter: whhhhhy
Me: You said you hate you brothers.
Daughter: No I didn’t.
Me: Yes you did, and that is not nice.
Daughter: You have to understand my nuance, what I meant by hate, dear father is that when my brothers behave in a particular way it distresses me to the core of my being and makes me, in the temporal moment, not feel the love for them, which so clearly exists in my deeper being.
Bellposed that would look like this:
Rob Bell Questioner: Rob seems to be questioning some of the historic beliefs of the Christian Church
Bell Supporter: What. No he is not.
Bell Questioner: Did you see his latest video where he said _____________ or read his latest book where he wrote ________________
Bell Supporter: No he didn’t
Bell Quesitoner: Yes he did look here__________________________
Bell Supporter: Oh dear friend if only you we as enlightened as Rob you would see that what he really meant when he said ______________ was that ________________ and ____________________.
Which leads to phase two:
Daughter Argument step 2: The Big Meany Argument (Oooohhh how terrible it is to be misunderstood)
Me: That is not what you meant, and either why it does not matter because that is not what you said.
Daughter: YOU JUST DON’T UNDERSTAND!!!!! (insert 11 year of girl wailing here) No one understands. No one loves me.
Me: We do love you, but you need to realize that words have meanings and you need to show self control.
Daughter: You are so mean. So so mean. Sob. You. Sob. are. Sob. So. Sob. Mean.
In the Bell world:
Quesitoner: I am not sure, he really does seem to be saying _____________________
Supporter: Oh you are one of those, I bet you have never even met Rob Bell, I bet you never even went to church at Mars Hill, I bet you a not even blood related or currently married to Rob Bell…and if you are not how can you even suggest such evil things.
Questioner: Um, I am just saying I am not sure that what he is saying is Biblical.
Supporter: YOU JUST DON”T LOVE JESUS (insert college age fan boy wailing here). NO one understands. They didn’t even take the time to raise a child with Rob Bell! No one else loves Jesus.
Questioner: I am just asking a question why is that so bad?
Supporter: You are so mean. So so mean. Sob. You. Sob. are. Sob. So. Sob. Mean.
Step three: They Started it/ I Was Acting in Justice
Daughter: We would not even be in this situation if they had not started it.
Me: It does not matter who started it, you can not just say things like that
Daughter: I told you he started it. He is a little brat, you should have raised him better. You let him get away with everything.
Me. He is an infant.
Daughter: That is always his excuse. I don’t care if he is not old enough to hold his own head up..he should not have looked at me that way!
Bellposed:
Questioner: It seems like you get very worked up in these conversations, if what he is saying can stand the test why not discuss it clearly.
Supporter: OH I GET WORKED UP! I GET WORKED UP!!!!!! This is all John Pipers fault. He started it. I would like to kick that dude in the face.
Questioner: Ummm you want to kick a 63 year old man in the face?
Supporter: I wouldn’t care if he could not hold his own head up…he should not have used the Bible against Rob that way…
Step Four: I am Sorry you are so Wrong, Lets agree to disagree
Me: You will have to stay in your room until you are ready to aologise to your baby brother.
Daughter: I am sorry that he looked at me like that.
Me: Truely apologise
Daughter: I am sorry he is such a brat
Me: Seriously, stop being mean.
Daughter: I am not being mean, I am sorry you see it that way.
Bellposed:
Questioner: So you have no problem with the fact the he said __________________ or ______________ or ________________________
Supporter: I’m sorry I am not a judgmental as you.
Questioner: I am not judging, just trying to have a conversation, seriously it does not bother you?
Supporter: I am waiting to draw any conclusions.
Questioner: Waiting for what?
Supporter: Waiting for Rob to say clearly what he believes.
Questioner: Seriously, don’t you think his “questions” point to some sort of belief?
Supporter: Wow. I’m sorry you feel the need to judge like that.
Questioner: ummmmm
Supporter: OK, you are an idiot who knows nothing, lets just agree to disagree (insert smiley face)
My point here I guess is that whether with my daughter or with an adult this method of fighting annoys me…I don’t want to agree to disagree under these terms. I feel like the terms are dishonest, because at the end of the day any questioner is being asked by agreeing to disagree to assent to the idea that RB’s ideas are acceptably evangelical. I can not agree to that. If in fact any supporter wants to say that these ideas fall outside of evangelical orthodoxy then we are on honest grounds and I would be happy to “agree to disagree.” But even in agreeing to disagree that does not preclude honest and rigorous discussion which it seems to me is what the RB Posse hates more than anything.
I would love to think that this morning or some morning soon, there will be hundreds of Marshill-ites out side furiously scraping the “Love Wins” stickers of their cars…because just as he has often done with orthodoxy Rob Bell has snuck in and redefined its meaning.
As a native Grand Rapidian I see those stickers all the time, and I know that their owner is most likely white, solidly middle class and formerly from a traditional evangelical church (most likely some terrible, dead CRC or fundemenatlist Baptist church, which this town is full of). These people have always made up the dwindling core of MHBC and if you are from here you can understand why they would be looking for a young, exciting charismatic leader who told them that there was something beyond dead orthodoxy. And so in droves they left their dead congregations in search of a more living faith. However I suspect that most of them at the time had a problem with dead orthodoxy not orthodoxy in general.
So I wonder, if now, on the day after an all church meeting where Rob Bell visited town to explain the key themes in his new book if many of them feel slighted and upset and none too happy that they have a tiny billboard for aberrant theology stuck to the back of their Escalades.
I also wonder if the next MHBC sticker bomb will be “Hell: No!”
One of my pet theological peeves is a distortion of the value of “emphasis.” Heresy is a matter of right or wrong, affirmation or denial. Someone can be imbalanced by being . . . imbalanced, but damnable error involves more than being half a bubble off.
and
If you are limber in your joints, you can play the emphasis game, and run circles around everybody. If a theologian “emphasizes” the Old Testament too much, it might lead one to suspect Judaizing. That would be bad. Or, if you like him, you might applaud his recovery of certain Hebraic echos in the letters of Paul. If his work happens to be in the New Testament, the suspicion might be that he is active in promoting Hellenism. After all, is he not a Greek scholar? Hmmm? But if he is a good guy, then the word Hellenism disappears.
On that note I am reconsidering refering to a certain church as Mars Heretical and just calling it Mars Halfbubical. That is all.
D
So someone got here by searching for: “Is Rob Bell leaving Mars Hill”…To which I reply 1. He is only “contracted” to speak 21 times at Mars Hill this year so you might say he has already checked out (though if i could get a job working less than half the year and being a international superstar I would too). Something tells me though that if I attended Mars Hill I might be a little ticked off that my “pastor” does not want to spend much time with me. Maybe that is not how the MH’ers feel though… I mean we know that most of them have a low aptitude when it comes to orthodox theology, but you would think that their emotions would still work (especially in a church that is really just repackaging humanism with a Hebrew flair). 2. My guess is that if he “leaves” it will not be so much his decision… So you might want to search for “Mars Hill Lets Rob Bell Go…” Of course I can not prove that, It is just what I am hearing. Cause I gots peoples yo.
I know many of you will be emotional about this…there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth…and no I have no idea who the people who made this are or if I agree with them or not (on other things)…but it is funny, so even though I am sure some of you will be hurt deep in your soul I am posting this anyway…because as I have said before this site is about one thing: Funny.
So a fun little Bell quote for you:
“You have to be totally disconnected from the pain of the world to think that blogging is somehow a redemptive use of your time. I guess I have some strong thoughts on that.”
He said this in Relevant Magazine BTW…(which I love)…
But does anyone else suspect that the reason Bell doesn’t like bloggers is because they criticize him (I know that seems obvious)..but let me point out something to you…a whole lot of Bell’s congregation is made up of young people who grew up in gospel free, fundamentalist churches here in good ole’ GR. What does that mean you ask? Two things:
1. They were tired of dead, lifeless churches (which this town is full of).
2. They are most likely not very theologically astute, because after all, they grew up in Grand Rapids fundamentalist churches. Let’s face it most of the churches here teach a tired moralism (which is really just practical relativism) and never teach the Gospel. (Jesus anyone?)
So along comes Rob Bell, who lets face it, is more dynamic than David Koresh, and the young people flock to him like crazy because he seems to be what they are looking for..and because they are from nominally theological churches they assume that he is on the same page as, oh I don’t know, orthodoxy…I blame the churches for that one.
DA Carson expresses the idea like this:
In other words, he shows a little clip on one of his Nooma videos—on forgiveness, let’s say—that would be completely gospel-free to anybody who is Biblically illiterate.
But if you bring in your Christian assumptions on what forgiveness looks like—because you know what Christ was doing on the Cross—and you’re making the right confessions already, you read your Christian assumptions into that video and you won’t see just how empty it is of real substance because you brought all of your Christian catechism with you. (thanks to Kenneth for the quote)
Anyhoo that is who Bell is speaking to, and they are not going to criticize (who wants to be a pharisee). But here is the blogosphere he encounters people who dare disagree and whom he can’t silence so he hates on them…Interesting is all I am saying.
PS: I have noticed a lot of you who do (rightly) take on Bell’s thoughts don’t allow comments on your sites…I mean if you are going to say it, why not allow the comments?
This is from my friend Rymass’ site. HERE. It deals with every college boy’s favorite man crush Rob Bell…feel free to hop over and read…oh and be sure to leave her your whiny, delusional and poorly thought out comments. (But I mean that is a nice way). Flood her with your indignation for daring to question your god…oops, I mean your favorite speaker. No seriously, just read it and consider.
D
Sort of..the question was “What can we learn from the Emergent Church?” I guess his answer was nothing, (or who cares, to be more accurate). At any rate I really enjoyed the message. It is good. You can listen here: Driscoll
Here is a fun little article…it is especially fun for me as Steve Sebastian is a friend of mine that I have not seen in years…The article and issue are old, but I think it goes back to the whole idea of Rob labeling and trying to discredit anyone who would question him.
Sebastian approached Bell following one Sunday evening service and suggested that he ditch his fascination with the so-called redemptive movement hermeneutic and get back to preaching the Scriptures. Bell’s response surprised Sebastian.
“He burst out laughing and asked me in a sarcastic tone if I knew how we came to have the canon of Scripture. [He] belittled the process by which the canon of Scripture was decided upon by suggesting it was absurd that 300 men in some meeting could accurately tell us what books should be included,” Sebastian said.
Poop is emergent too 
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